i think dyfys should be more concerned about the real abusers out there. i know someone being investigated by them and they have serious problems but dyfys is just pussyfooting around everything,they only bother the people who they shouldn't and let the real abusers free,pathetic!

I am shocked that the greater majority would not find this abusive. I will not lie and say that I have never given my kids a whack on the butt. Leaving a bruise on their face...that must be one hell of a slap and is just plain wrong!

Open your closed mind- to speak that nonsense is sheer ignorance. Hint-although a slap in the face may not constitute abuse it is still inappropriate.
A former DYFS worker of 11 years

Kids need a good smack once in awhile!! there is nothing wrong with it as long as they arent over board.

Wow… surprising that 67 % of the people said no to this question. So I assume that if any of these people went to work, and their boss struck them in the face hard enough to make a bruise as a disciplinary action, they would be fine with it and not call the cops, or file a complaint with HR???

My personal feeling with regard to DYFYS is that it should not be anonymous. Too many people abuse the system because they are pissed off at a neighbor or whomever and use it as a means to “get back at them”. There are legitimate cases of children being abused and this system is out there chasing a rainbow because someone has a vendetta. If you sincerely feel there is something wrong…abuse, neglect, whatever….would you be ashamed to try the help a kid. I most certainly wouldn’t.

And EP&L..."leaving a bruise to a childs face is abuse in my opinion. it is excessive force whether intentional or by accident and can lead to embarrassment," WHAAAAAT???

How does one accidentally leave a bruise by hitting a kid in the face and embarrassment should be the least of the concern!

Smacking a kid around will just make the mean ones meaner. Trust me! An adult who beats on a child is nothing but a bully, a poor excuse for a parent, and one day that kid will probably beat that parents ass Or worse!!

Striking a child is a failure and the pattern repeats itself. Never strike a child.

looking at how kids are today and how they were when i was growing up, and im not old, kills me. Kids are out of control these days and there is nothing a parent can do. Im sorry but when your teenager gets outta control, TIME OUT is not gonna work for them. We used to get chased around our house with spatulas and wooden spoons. Would i hit my kids with them no, but i also dont think its right that parents have to be afraid to give their kids a swift kick in the butt every now and then without having to worry about DYFS being called. Its crazy. DYFS needs to worry about the heroin addicts who have kids. That seems to be a bigger problem than a smack to the mouth right now

Leaving a bruise is excessive force but I will tell you when my now adult son was 16 he called be a b***ch and I slapped him across that face. I did not harm or bruise him. That was the only time I ever struck him. I believe in harsher punishment such as no TV in the room no computer or no XBOX. Thats what hurts these kids not physical abuse.

I can see this woman being pregnant and out of sorts .I can assume we have all been cracked once or twice from our parents. Hey I got the wooden spoon. It didnt damage me it let me know not to screw with my parents .

I'm with those who found it shocking that 67% thought it was acceptable. As an adult child of an abuser, I can tell you that abuse leaves lasting scars - physical and emotional. Striking a child might solve the problem in the short term but not in the long run. This agressive behavior only teaches children that might makes right.

What is desperately needed is parent education, long before children are old enough to act out in this way. Parents need to have appropriate disciplinary responses thought through and decided upon long before the child is out of control. That prevents the parents "snapping" from the stress of the and doing foolish things, such as hitting -which simply models the type of behavior you're trying to prevent - or making threats that could not reasonably be carried out. And that education would include not just responses to bad behavior, but recognition of behavior that constitutes warning signs. The fact that this little boy has been acting out at school, and kicking his his sister's stomach with no remorse is indeed a warning sign. If parents begin see a pattern of callous disregard for others, this is not just normal high jinks. Children like this (and their parents) need intensive intervention in order to prevent worse behavior in the future. Without recognition of this, antisocial children become antisocial adults with very unpleasant consequences.

Disciplining children is a necessary but unpleasant part of raising children that should only be carried out by qualified parents. Anyone who has ever abused a child -- or has ever felt himself losing control during a spanking -- should not expose the child to that tragedy. Anyone who has a violent temper that at times becomes unmanageable should not use that approach. Anyone who secretly 'enjoys' the administration of corporal punishment should not be the one to implement it” --- Doctor James Dobson

There is a time and a reason for corporal punishment. However, it needs to be delivered in a safe, controlled and effective manner, otherwise what is the point? Striking a child on the face, let alone leaving a mark is unacceptable punishment, at least in my book.

how many of us were hit by hands, spoons, belts, or anything else a parent can find...I think my brother may have been hit with a tennis racquet for crying out loud. Is it abusive? well, now a days I guess it is...but honestly I grew up fine and surely do not abusive my kids...smack a butt, pull an ear, perhaps when needed...

leaving a bruise on an adults face because you did not like their behavior is plain and simple, its called ASSUALT!!! So now tell me why it is not abuse if you did that to your child?

I see a wooden spoon theme in this thread .

So 9 months pregnant and she knows she is about to bring an infant into the house. She has a disrespectful 8 year old in the house who states "I felt like it' when asked why he kicked his sister. Now, thanks to this ruling this boy knows he has the upper hand in the house. Can't wait to see how he treats an infant and what he is like at 16.

I have 3 children and can honestly say I never struck any of them once- and made it a point not to. Enforcing the word NO takes some patients when they are young, but I learned ways to stand my ground. Raising a child is a full-time job that takes complete dedication. Especially when they spend they're whole childhood making parents out of us. The bottom line is- "No" I wouldn't do it again if I had the chance. I'm looking forward to being a Grand-mother some day, but that also has rules and one of them is that they are not my children. You can bring them here any time you want- as long as you take them with you when you leave.

@Bob I am sorry to hear your story. When most of us were whacked as kids it was usually an isolated incident. I was smacked but not abused.

We have to come up with a game plan in these times because teens and young adults are out of control. Physical violence is not the answer.

Although I was hit as a child I never hit my kids I found taking stuff away was far more effective.

No one has brought up the irony of a mother who teachers her kid not to kick his sister by hitting him. She is not only providing him with a mixed message, but setting a very poor example by showing him that the correct way to deal with inappropriate behavior is through violence. It’s no wonder that the boy kicks his sister when he is unhappy with her, since that is the way his mother deals with him when she is displeased. It’s a viscous cycle.

DFYS can overrule a judge?

My husband and I agreed to leave corporal punishment to chases of true danger, Disobeying about playing in the street/fire/knives, basically an activity that the child could cause serious harm to themselves or others. Everything else would get a lose of privileges.

abusing a child and leaving marks is not acceptable especially in someones face. however as stated hands spoons belts other things were used which taught us when to and when not to cross the line. go back to 1990 atleast (just giving a year) and look at the child abuse DYFS cases, drug use and crime in teenagers, bet you the rates were alot lower then. My 6 year old looked at me one day with an attitude and yelled DUHHHHH. i smacked her dead on her lips, not across her face and not hard, but right on her lips didnt leave any marks and she hasnt done it since.

Not good situation. A women who is nine months pregnant is often in a tough emotional place hormonally and just the stress of the upcoming birth. No excuses just reality. The son, who kicked is sister, probably left a bruise as well. My Mom had a different approach and it started with, wait until your Father gets home. That was enough to stop me in my tracks and take ownership of my behavior before he arrived. I look back and love the loving discipline I received. It's never perfect and true abuse is just wrong .

Are we going to be allowed to slap adults in the face too? If I promise not to leave a bruise?

As an adult like bob who was the child of an abusive parent, I assure you it leaves lasting emotional scars long after the physical ones have healed. I spent some time in therapy to come to terms with the abuse I endured as a child and to learn to let go of my resentment. I now have children of my own and I do not use physical punishment at all when disciplining them. I see no place for it and it only served to create hurt and resentment in my case and did not make me behave better. I was actually an A student who never caused a problem but I still got hit because my parent had anger management issues (and there were a lot of things going on between both of my parents that were not good). Today I do have a good relationship with that parent as I have let go of my resentment and while my parent never apologized, I do know that they regret their actions and my parent no longer has the same anger management issues. They say children of abusers become abusers but I disagee-I swore to myself (when I pulled clumps of hair out of my head from my hair being pulled so hard for the umpteenth time) that I would never, ever do that to my children and I never have and never will. My children are pretty well behaved too!!

Using your hands at any time is an easy way out ; For me , i only raised my hand once to my youngest ,when she was about 5 years old - stinging her butt with my fingers - having left an imprint ; unintentionally, on her cheek, i vowed never to do it again. Her response was not expected. She just stood there and stared at me , lookied at the resultant mark and told me to look at what i had done to her. that was the last time - but i have been fortunate to have raised great children who wanted to please me because i decided at that moment to use my skill sets to get my way. Not my hands. Psychological warfare! That is what works. Kill them with kindness, let them make mistakes, use those moments as teaching moments, guage their desire to correct them and allow them the freedom to make decissions and live with the consequences. Always with love and hugs.

@Blue Heron it takes a really big person to talk so candidly and forgive your parent. I wasnt raised by my real mother she was a junkie. Thank god I was removed by my father when I was 5. I never saw her again but if I did I cant tell you forgiveness would have happenned..

As a child if I acted up my mother would take me out of the store or restaurant and go home and I sat punished in my room. @Jersey girl you are so right. I cannot tell you how many times I have been a Target and someones kid is screaming or wrecking displays and the parents just ignore it.

What about the parents that don't care? I'm talking about the ones say in a restaurant where the kid is acting up, running around,yelling etc. When the parents finally have had enough they take the kid aside or outside, come back in and in 5 minutes it's all happening all over again. If I did 1/2 the stuff the kids do theses days, my family would have never had the pleasure of maybe "eating out" once a week.....

DYFS is a joke, they can't even take care of their own biological kids, let alone someone elses.
I'm tired of children being allowed to act like animals.

Children should be seen and not heard is the way I was brought up.

Use the cattle prod , leaves no marks.

All I can say is go by Montville Quick Check in the evening hours, the crowd of young adults hanging there are beating themselves up fairly well on a nightly basis. I would wager that most of them never saw the back of a hand, maybe if they did they wouldn't be so disrespectful to others today.....

did anyone get soap in their mouth as a kid if you back talked or said a bad word knowing it was wrong???

and its hard for kids to see the back of a hand when schools make it known that every little thing is child abuse and they can run to the school and have DYFS called or can pick up the phone and call DYFS on their own.

Children learn as they are taught , http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.empowermentresources.com%2Finfo2%2Fchildrenlearn-long_version.html&ei=JRCHT6nBAofn0QGB0pmxBw&usg=AFQjCNGEH-MQSct_ODz3EH_vmlJJESoLTA
It has been there forever, as our children are now young adults. Not a week went by that I did not pick it up and read it through, even now I do the same. But it was the way. It worked well beyond measure. Sure there were moments, but they were few. Decent and respectful , kind and giving are our children, for which I thank God.

NO ONE, INCLUDING PARENTS SHOULD NEVER, EVER SLAP/STRIKE A CHILD IN THE FACE!! IF THEY CHOOSE THAT PUNISHMENT....SHOULD DEFINETLY GO TO JAIL!!!

Outsmarted by an 8-year old child? Remarkable.
This is all the proof you need to know there are no such things as bad kids - only bad parents. REGARDLESS of the circumstances, these parents should be slapped hard enough to be knocked unconcious, locked up and prosecuted. And they should never be permitted near children again. The idea that this is some how fodder for a debate is not only deplorable, but is further evidence of the terminal corruption of "the system." If you can't control your child without resorting to violence, have no business being a parent or even a citizen. You belong behind bars.

It's astonishing to see how few get the connection between corporal punishment & the problem of our youth bullying each other. Getting physical as a means of 'discipline' teaches a child that it is ok to use physical force to get your way. I am not proud of the handful of times I have given 'a spanking', or even grabbed one of my children. I have no interest in judging others or their experiences. My concern is the ignorance & contradictions that perpetuate a cycle of disrespect, anger & resentment so rampant in our society.

“When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline.”
A quote from Haim Ginott - teacher/child psychologist & famous author.

It's not about 'showing 'em who's boss' - it is about TEACHING ACCOUNTABILITY for our actions. How inane is it to come from a perspective of needing to make a child feel worse by humiliating them, by disrespecting them in order to get them to cooperate? How did you feel the last time someone(a boss, a spouse, a stranger)made you feel humiliated or ashamed? Did that motivate you to cooperate? I am all for discipline and get just as frustrated with parents whose children 'run amuck' with no consequences. But aren't our children worthy of the time, patience & creativity it takes to come up with ways to instill the self-discipline & respect that result in 'good' behavior?

thank u ms reilly, M S W AND FORMER DYFS WORKER...................... thanks again for your comment.

The bottom line is hitting kids doesn't work. It has been proven over and over again that physical punishments don't change behavior. But hitting kids does teach them to lash out physically when they are frustrated. That is exactly what they witness every time the most important role models in their life hit them. There is just no reason to hurt a kid. It doesn't work!

Why is DYFS allowed to overrule a judge?

GOOD QUESTION??

Of course striking your child in the face is abusive. Why would there be any question of that? A quick swat on the behind of a recalcitrant 5-year old is one thing, but an esteem-destroying smack across the face is something else entirely. The mere fact that the question is asked, "Is this abusive?" gives one pause to wonder at the intelligence, the morality, and of the fitness for parenthood of one who would ask such an inane question.

The dichotomy in all of this is that we then take young people raised on the Judeo-Christian ethic for 18 years or so and place them in military service.

We then essentially teach them to disavow such pacificism inside of six months and they learn that the experience of a couple of playground fistfights might have served them rather well .

@EP&L....first of all my name is Stacie not Tracie. And I never suggested, pretended or offered to be a professional. I think there is a huge difference between a swat on the butt and a bruise leaving slap across the face. My question was really with regard to your comment that it could happen accidentally. And for the record....you need not worry about me mentioning you any further. I have better things to do.

When it comes to abuser's..because its all they know...they learn how to get around dyfs..instead of correcting the pattern that create the abuse behavior.
DID YOU KNOW...Any person who knowingly fails to report suspected abuse or neglect according to the law or to comply with the provisions of the law is a disorderly person and subject to a fine of up to $1000 or up to six months imprisonment, or both. BE YOUR OWN ADVOCATE!!!

Thanks EP&L Electric for the good laugh! My parents aren't from Italy; but, I certainly received that same ol' school butt kicking that you will never forget too. You were certainly right on with the rest of your comment.
"my parents came from italy and i used get hit all the time...it sure as hell made me think about it everytime i thought about talking back to them. i don't know the facts of this case so i can't comment on whether the court went to far or not...by i will say this, there are a lot of kids out there that if they feared a good kick in the ass would show a lot more respect to society and not be the spoiled lazy little bitches that run to get prescription meds and a lawyer".

A smack on the face is a no-no.
A slap on the a$$ is OK

Bottom line...smack on the butt or tap to the mouth is not bad however, anytime you hit a child hard enough where it leaves a mark and is still there the next day is child abuse.

I love how people can so easily establish absolutes (bottom line... this is ok, this not ok...), as if striking a child is no different from solving a math problem.

im just curious if your a full time parent hookerman???

Blog your heart out Nicole. He is condescending and does not want to be challenged on any point of view that does not coincide with his own.

and you are saying you have never ever ever raised a hand to your kid. Then give us some of your disciplining methods please. Im not being a jerk and its very rare that i put my hands on my kids but if you have a way that works i am more than willing to give it a try. :)

I was raised in an abusive home...A smack in the face is demeaning, humiliating, and most importantly horrific...I choose to raise my kids without physical abuse...My children know there are consequences for all actions...good and bad!...And we follow through with those consequences...I refuse to repeat my history on my own children...Just my two cents...

Hookerman, GREAT suggestion, honestly never thought of that. I will definately be trying it though. now any suggestions on a 3 year old that cant write yet lol

You disgusting man…. EP&L….Nicole and I are friends and have a common view on this topic. Just as you do with your “Pisano”. While I don’t necessarily agree with your opinion that is beyond uncalled for. Maybe your big old mama brought you up to be a condescending, disrespectful man but mine did not with my brothers and nor will words like that ever leave my three sons’ mouths. In this day and age you have the audacity to post “so don't be critical of my opinions. just state whatever it is you want to say and i'll respect it. now get back in the kitchen...the place is a mess...both of you ”. Shame on you and I am reporting you to the Patch. You are highly inappropriate and crossed a line that I don’t take lightly at all.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

Very smart to make comments such as those when your business name is your user name in this forum.

EP youre making some not so nice comments. just sayin. Tellin her to clean the kitchen and talkin about her abusing her kids...again is not what this topic is about. Not nice.

Too late EP...they're already reported. Have a good weekend!

NP...and dont feel bad my kitchen is dirty too between beating my kids and anger management classes i dont have time to clean it...just joking

Because I said, "whaaaat" to your comment that a facial bruise could be an accidental result of hitting a kid in the face? I don't need anger management....you most certainly need a shrink EP. It sounds like you could benefit from a little anger management yourself or medication at the very least.

with all the arguing thats going on on this page...it was a joke this isnt a place to judge people, which seems to have happened. sorry if you cant take a joke nantz. I will delete the comment if that will make you happy :)

Cowards delete their comments. Real men apologize for being rude and disgusting. I pity your children and wife if you have either.

Wow. Leave the house to run a few errands (like a good lil' wife) & all hell breaks loose! It's a wonder that Mr. Vespa isn't otherwise occupied with running what I'm sure must be the very successful EP&L Electric Co. Apparently he is under the mistaken impression that he determines the comments we get to post or not. (Oh, that's right...you deleted the comment you directed at Stacie & I where you instruct us not to post comments like "whaaat?" & "wow. you've got it all figured out" - but that is what I'm responding to.) I won't even dignify the mysogynistic comment about the state of my kitchen ('cause THAT'S 'on topic', right?). However, I'm afraid you've mistaken this forum as an audition for Jersey Shore.

parenting is not easy and having said that i gather there are many opinions on what to do. the subject is an easy one to pontificate about but until we lived in each others footprint how can we know what is best. i was beat with a belt, had things tossed at me and generally had insults tossed my way from my parents - as a child we do stupid things; what they did may be wrong or not depending on the perspective - i will not knock someone to their face on how they raise their kids - i will keep my opinion to myself . but having admitted to the abuse i took (LOL), and turning out ok ( i think my kids are ok with me )as a parent , i didnt allow my past to create an excuse to do the same to my kids. i think all the badgering of each other is out of frustration because we all have an acute sense of what is right and want others to follow. hence my frustration with others in stacking the votes in silly polls and then taking abuse over it... no worries.

You all need to toughen up!! Toughen these kids up too!! All you parents are creating kids that are so soft they crumble under any stress . Anything tough that comes into their lives, they automatically have to see a counselor and go on Prozac or Xanax to deal with there life problems. Now i'm not saying to go beat your kid senseless so they have no trust in anyone because you are a parent its your fault they are in this world not theirs. But i believe in when they get out of line something needs to be done and then after you give them a explanation on why it happens. A simple action to a reaction and that will teach them.

For the record....my husband called him. He wasn't such a tough guy.

Hello, Moderator?

Right on Nicole. And thank you, moderator as Mr. Fonseca suggested.

Please keep comments to the subject at hand and avoid personal attacks or the use of profanity. We have suspended one user and deleted a few comments from this thread.

“There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children.” - Nelson Mandela

I was never ever hit once as a child, and guess what? I turned out pretty darn good. How did this happen? I HAD PARENTS WHO TAUGHT ME RIGHT. I mean, c'mon people. Slapping a child on the face is an indictment of your poor parenting skills, plain and simple.

Sometimes it's as simple as a child misbehaving and the parent giving him or her a spanking. More often than not, it's a parent taking their frustration over another issue, out on a helpless child who happened to have committed a mild infraction.

I also need to clarify something from my comments as I was personally attacked on the subject. I have swatted my kids on the butt as I have said. I can probably count on one hand how many times. The reason I changed MY behavior with regard to discipline was because in that reactionary moment it seemed "okay" but five seconds later I hated myself because I realized it accomplished nothing. Parenting has a tremendous learning curve. I'm still learning and am 14 years in. I am not proud of the spanks and am not trying to speak out of both sides of my mouth, I still feel that if you are hitting a child (or anyone for that matter) hard enough to leave a bruise, there is something wrong.

I can count on one hand the total number of times I have raised a hand to all my children (one spank on the butt and one open back-hand to the mouth). While, I agree that one should NEVER spank a child in anger, I have taken the back of my hand and smacked my kid's mouth after calling her mother something very, VERY offensive and beyond disrespectful. To this day, I am not sorry I did it. While I have practiced restraint on my children and found more oftern than not, non-physical means of punishment were far more appropriate and effective, I cannot say that there aren't times when it is necessary. It should not be taken away from a parent as a tool to use in their parenting toolbox - just know when it is the right tool.

For those who are posting that are saying how well they or their kids are turning out, remember, it is only as good as today and I have seen plenty of kids who need to be smacked because of the parenting skills of their parents who are permissive and spoiling. Do not judge.

If teachers can keep your kids in line without abusing them and we see them more often than their parents then their parents should be able to keep their hands off them too.

I think that the people who replied "yes" to this survey are all over 55 and retired. My generation (I have a 4 year old) refuses to hit their kids. Ever. What worked for our elders back in the day is no longer relevant to us.

Who is to be the judge as to when a slap is justified? Has the child tried to drive the car, turned on the stove or simply forgotten to do his homework. Where do you stop?

Once you let violence into your home, how do you get it out? I think it's a slippery slope. In general I keep violence out of my home by disciplining through "time-outs," grounding (and canceling playdates) as well as removal of privileges. If you are one of those parents who can hit their kids once for a grave offense and then remove violence from you "skill-set," then kudos to you.

We all have friends who were smacked around as children and have major relationship issues, trouble with jobs, maintaining friendships and trust issues. Don't let this happen to your kids. Keep the violence out.

Patricia, if you can bring up a child successfully without a smack then good for you. There are levels of "violence" and your child is still too young to assess how well you have done without it. Time outs do not work for every child nor do groundings. Just wait, you'll see. While I may have spanked my children on rare occasions, I was in no way "smacking them around" and most of us who may have been raised in this fashion do not have relationship issues. Broaden your understanding of discipline and do not be so quick to prescribe what is best for all children. Again, your job as a parent is no way complete. Wait until they come out the other side into adulthood before you judge. I want to see the finished product before I assess how good a parent you are.

Spankings were not used as discipline by my parents. Worked for them, and is working for us.

Trust me some do there job and 98% just gets paid to text and get laid all day and believe me I know a crazy case they pay no attention to but a bs. Case they make it a murder case ......but I agree no child should ever be smacked in the face at all no matter what.......

I am astounded by all of the comments from people looking for acceptance for spanking their kids. in all of my years of teaching I have seen so many mothers come in and say "I have only spanked them a handful of times and stopped because I felt so bad" Why did you continue after the 1st time then? Look, do what you want and the best you can but don't come in here and pretend. This one woman has close to 20 posts...if that's not looking for acceptance I don't know what is. She even has the audacity to say her house is a mess! How about you clean your house rather than try to control this conversation. You know who you are....you make us working women who have better things to do look bad. Enough is enough.

I think it's important to remember that basic Parenting is a "self-study" course, there is no universal parenting curriculum. There needs to be. All the comments that mentioned "they knew" or "everyone knows" that corporal punishment isn't effective illustrates that point. Most parents start out on their own, just figuring it out as they go along because we don't have a formal method of passing effective parenting skills to potential or new parents.